Legislature(1999 - 2000)

01/27/2000 01:40 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                                                                                
GENERAL SUBJECT(S):  DISCUSSION ON G.O. BONDS                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The following overview was taken in log note format.  Tapes and                                                                 
handouts will be on file with the House Finance Committee through the                                                           
21st Legislative Session, contact 465-2156. After the 21st Legislative                                                          
Session they will be available through the Legislative Library at 465-                                                          
3808.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Time Meeting Convened: 1:40 P.M.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Tape(s):   HFC 00 - 19, Side 1                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT:                                                                                                                        
X                                                                                                                               
Representative G. Davis                                                                                                         
X                                                                                                                               
Co-Chair Therriault                                                                                                             
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Foster                                                                                                           
Absent                                                                                                                          
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Grussendorf                                                                                                      
X                                                                                                                               
Vice Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Absent                                                                                                                          
Representative Moses                                                                                                            
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Austerman                                                                                                        
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Phillips                                                                                                         
X                                                                                                                               
Representative J. Davies                                                                                                        
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Williams                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT: WILSON, CONDON, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE;                                                              
TIM RATTIGAN, VICE PRESIDENT OF PUBLIC FINANCE,                                                                                 
SOLOMON/SMITH/BARNEY, JUNEAU; DEVAN MITCHELL, DEBT MANAGER, TREASURY                                                            
DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE; NEIL SLOTNICK, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY                                                              
GENERAL, CIVIL DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF LAW.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LOG                                                                                                                             
SPEAKER                                                                                                                         
DISCUSSION                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE HFC 00 - 19,                                                                                                               
SIDE 1                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
000                                                                                                                             
VICE CHAIR BUNDE                                                                                                                
Vice Chair Bunde convened the House                                                                                             
Finance Committee meeting at 1:40 p.m.                                                                                          
187                                                                                                                             
DEVAN MITCHELL, DEBT                                                                                                            
MANAGER, TREASURY                                                                                                               
DIVISION, DEPARTMENT                                                                                                            
OF REVENUE                                                                                                                      
Provide a handout for Committee members.                                                                                        
[Copy on File].  He noted that page 2 of                                                                                        
the handout identified the general                                                                                              
obligation bonds authorized and issued                                                                                          
and listed by decade.                                                                                                           
298                                                                                                                             
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Referenced page 3, which illustrates the                                                                                        
outstanding bonds at each year since                                                                                            
1957.  He commented on the general                                                                                              
obligation bonds issued against the                                                                                             
relation to the Prudhoe Bay drop off.                                                                                           
350                                                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE                                                                                                                  
FOSTER                                                                                                                          
Asked what the bonds were expected to be                                                                                        
used for.                                                                                                                       
392                                                                                                                             
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Replied that bonding has been used for                                                                                          
multiple purposes but generally are used                                                                                        
for one time expenses that the State                                                                                            
might have incurred.                                                                                                            
431                                                                                                                             
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Referenced page 4, which demonstrates the                                                                                       
general sales life of each bond.  He                                                                                            
suggested that today, there exists no                                                                                           
outstanding debt.                                                                                                               
491                                                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE                                                                                                                  
AUSTERMAN                                                                                                                       
Requested information regarding the 1984                                                                                        
spike.  He imagined that there could be                                                                                         
over $1 billion dollars given the current                                                                                       
increase.                                                                                                                       
538                                                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE                                                                                                                  
FOSTER                                                                                                                          
Asked about the bonds used for capitol                                                                                          
projects.  He asked if other states had                                                                                         
considered using bonds for operating                                                                                            
expenses.                                                                                                                       
595                                                                                                                             
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Explained that bonds used for that                                                                                              
purpose was no longer allowed.  He noted                                                                                        
that there is a tax-exempt limitation for                                                                                       
one-time costs.                                                                                                                 
625                                                                                                                             
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Moved to page 5, which lists the State                                                                                          
debt capacity.  He explained that:                                                                                              
? The ratio of debt service to revenues                                                                                         
is used as a guideline;                                                                                                         
? Included debt service on state and                                                                                            
state supported debt;                                                                                                           
? Applied to unrestricted general fund                                                                                          
revenues;                                                                                                                       
? 5% to 8% guideline for a double "A"                                                                                           
rating.                                                                                                                         
746                                                                                                                             
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Added that there is not a defined                                                                                               
capacity.  He pointed out that the number                                                                                       
is a moving target.  A large                                                                                                    
consideration is the responsibility that                                                                                        
comes with continued operation under the                                                                                        
double "A" rating.  He noted that other                                                                                         
statistical measures do not apply in                                                                                            
Alaska.  An issuance of the size                                                                                                
suggested would shift the rating.  The                                                                                          
State should rely on their capacity to                                                                                          
standardize policy throughout the                                                                                               
country.  He added that normal measures                                                                                         
do not apply to some situations.                                                                                                
890                                                                                                                             
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Commented that it is important to                                                                                               
consider how the debt service should be                                                                                         
supported.  Mr. Mitchell referenced page                                                                                        
? State G.O. Debt;                                                                                                              
? Lease/Purchase Obligations;                                                                                                   
? University of Alaska; and                                                                                                     
? School Debt (1) Reimbursement                                                                                                 
989                                                                                                                             
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Stated that Moody's rate determination                                                                                          
would not include the school debt                                                                                               
reimbursement.  Standard and Poor model                                                                                         
does include the State debt reimbursement                                                                                       
but does not include it for the borrowing                                                                                       
capacity.  He reiterated that there are                                                                                         
differences for state supported                                                                                                 
borrowing.                                                                                                                      
1125                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Referenced page 7, which lists the types                                                                                        
of debt service as a percentage of,                                                                                             
unrestricted revenues.                                                                                                          
? State GO Debt;                                                                                                                
? State Supported Debt Service; and                                                                                             
? School Debt Service.                                                                                                          
1155                                                                                                                            
VICE CHAIR BUNDE                                                                                                                
Inquired if that could change the State's                                                                                       
rating.                                                                                                                         
1168                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Responded that it would not.                                                                                                    
1184                                                                                                                            
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT                                                                                                             
Admitted that was what was shown for                                                                                            
1999, however, voiced curiosity about the                                                                                       
spike in the graph.                                                                                                             
1206                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Agreed.                                                                                                                         
1215                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Reiterated that information on page 6                                                                                           
would help to define that situation more.                                                                                       
He spoke to the projected range                                                                                                 
percentages.  In 2001 through 2010 and                                                                                          
onward, the projection is for all school                                                                                        
debt reimbursement as if authorized                                                                                             
today.  Inclusive of that information,                                                                                          
Alaska is at 4%.                                                                                                                
1290                                                                                                                            
VICE CHAIR BUNDE                                                                                                                
Asked if the market had built a margin                                                                                          
for the fluctuation in the price of oil.                                                                                        
1312                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Stated that the market will price, given                                                                                        
consideration for oil price fluctuations.                                                                                       
He added that this is the long-term                                                                                             
projection and the plan at this time.  He                                                                                       
reiterated that this is the long-range                                                                                          
projection and not geared for a short                                                                                           
term unexpected event.                                                                                                          
1360                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Page #8.  Mr. Mitchell provided                                                                                                 
observations on the State debt capacity.                                                                                        
? Projected fiscal gap is limiting                                                                                              
factor;                                                                                                                         
? 68% of revenues from oil is a limiting                                                                                        
factor; and                                                                                                                     
? Debt issuance's of $100 to $125                                                                                               
million dollars per year over the next                                                                                          
five years probably feasible as G.O.                                                                                            
debt.                                                                                                                           
1442                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Continued addressing the Permanent Fund                                                                                         
earnings and the projection on how that                                                                                         
would be used.                                                                                                                  
1469                                                                                                                            
VICE CHAIR BUNDE                                                                                                                
Pointed out that there are proposals                                                                                            
currently "on the table" that are worth                                                                                         
over $100 million dollars.                                                                                                      
1493                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Replied that will require "pushing the                                                                                          
envelope" a little further.  He                                                                                                 
emphasized that there is an 8% guideline                                                                                        
included in the packet recommendations.                                                                                         
The most important aspect is the dialogue                                                                                       
that is involved.                                                                                                               
1534                                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE                                                                                                                  
PHILLIPS                                                                                                                        
Pointed out the 68% revenues from oil.                                                                                          
She inquired if that number had been                                                                                            
projected from last year.                                                                                                       
1550                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Explained that it had been taken from the                                                                                       
revenue book.  That is classified as                                                                                            
unrestricted revenue.  He acknowledged                                                                                          
that there was a discrepancy in that                                                                                            
number.                                                                                                                         
1579                                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE J.                                                                                                               
DAVIES                                                                                                                          
Asked the revenue percentage used to                                                                                            
determine that number.                                                                                                          
1597                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
For FY2001, that amount would be $1566.2                                                                                        
billion dollars.  It would decline from                                                                                         
that number.                                                                                                                    
1641                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
advised that there had been discrepancies                                                                                       
between the various departments.                                                                                                
1655                                                                                                                            
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT                                                                                                             
Asked if the $100 - $125 would be debt                                                                                          
issued to that amount.                                                                                                          
1682                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Replied it would.                                                                                                               
1687                                                                                                                            
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT                                                                                                             
Asked if that was only for the GO and                                                                                           
GARVEE bonds.  He asked if the market                                                                                           
would be looking at the overall debt.                                                                                           
1711                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Advised that the people will be looking                                                                                         
at what the State of Alaska is doing                                                                                            
broad based.  It is contemplated that if                                                                                        
the settlement were removed, given that                                                                                         
there were deterioration, there would be                                                                                        
no recourse against the State of Alaska.                                                                                        
He stated that the GARVEE bonds would be                                                                                        
paid with federal dollars.  There is                                                                                            
ongoing dialogue at this time.  He                                                                                              
reiterated that the overall debt issuance                                                                                       
needs to be considered.                                                                                                         
1805                                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE                                                                                                                  
PHILLIPS                                                                                                                        
Asked if the Departments recommendation                                                                                         
would be for the Legislature to put                                                                                             
together the capital projects, but not to                                                                                       
recommend issuing for more than $125                                                                                            
million dollars this year and then the                                                                                          
remaining for the following years.                                                                                              
1841                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Commented on the parameters that the                                                                                            
Department would recommend.  He                                                                                                 
acknowledged that there could be                                                                                                
ramifications.                                                                                                                  
1869                                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE J.                                                                                                               
DAVIES                                                                                                                          
Asked how long could it be expected that                                                                                        
the authorization would last.                                                                                                   
1889                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Stated that could occur.                                                                                                        
1896                                                                                                                            
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT                                                                                                             
Believed that some of the authorization                                                                                         
could be strung out over a number of                                                                                            
years.                                                                                                                          
1910                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Referenced page 9 which is a simplified                                                                                         
debt schedule of State debt capacity in                                                                                         
the $million dollars of debt                                                                                                    
service/unrestricted revenues (Fall 1999                                                                                        
Revenue Sources Book).  He noted that at                                                                                        
the 5% target, the cumulative capacity                                                                                          
would be $155.13 million dollars and at                                                                                         
8% would be $628.8 million dollars.                                                                                             
1995                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
If an additional amount were authorized,                                                                                        
the State would use the more conservative                                                                                       
approach which is the Standard and Pore                                                                                         
recommendation.                                                                                                                 
2039                                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE                                                                                                                  
FOSTER                                                                                                                          
Spoke to addressing deferred maintenance.                                                                                       
He inquired if some of the funds should                                                                                         
be used for that.                                                                                                               
2058                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Understood that some of the recommended                                                                                         
package did include some deferred                                                                                               
maintenance costs.                                                                                                              
2099                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
In response to Representative Foster, Mr.                                                                                       
Mitchell stated that the bonding agencies                                                                                       
are not assuming any responsibilities.                                                                                          
The people that buy the bonds are                                                                                               
ultimately responsible.  He emphasized                                                                                          
that it is imperative that the State                                                                                            
raises revenues to pay for the bonds.                                                                                           
2123                                                                                                                            
VICE CHAIR BUNDE                                                                                                                
Asked if the State of Alaska was becoming                                                                                       
like the miser who would die with debt                                                                                          
and lots of financial assets.                                                                                                   
2154                                                                                                                            
WILSON, CONDON,                                                                                                                 
COMMISSIONER,                                                                                                                   
DEPARTMENT OF                                                                                                                   
REVENUE                                                                                                                         
Replied that could happen to the State                                                                                          
given the choices of the investments that                                                                                       
are made.  It is important to give                                                                                              
consideration of where the investments                                                                                          
are made.  The investments have to be                                                                                           
weighed against other places where                                                                                              
investments can be made.                                                                                                        
2196                                                                                                                            
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT                                                                                                             
Asked about the negative brackets [] on                                                                                         
page 9.                                                                                                                         
2207                                                                                                                            
MR. MITCHELL                                                                                                                    
Replied that was where there was a                                                                                              
decrease in the fund service in what                                                                                            
could be issued over the next 20 years.                                                                                         
He added that it is the "mapping"                                                                                               
expected revenue stream.                                                                                                        
2235                                                                                                                            
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT                                                                                                             
Asked about the use of the tobacco                                                                                              
settlement funds.  He noted that in some                                                                                        
states, private citizens had undertaken                                                                                         
litigation for the proper use of those                                                                                          
funds.                                                                                                                          
2270                                                                                                                            
COMMISSIONER CONDON                                                                                                             
Did not know the legal basis that people                                                                                        
in other states were using.  He advised                                                                                         
that what applies in Alaska could be                                                                                            
legally different from those states.                                                                                            
2298                                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE                                                                                                                  
FOSTER                                                                                                                          
Voiced appreciation on the testimony                                                                                            
received both 2/26 and 2/27.  He asked if                                                                                       
there was a bill prepared with the                                                                                              
discussed information.                                                                                                          
2309                                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE                                                                                                                  
PHILLIPS                                                                                                                        
Replied that it is being working on in                                                                                          
Co-Chair Mulder's office.                                                                                                       
2316                                                                                                                            
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT                                                                                                             
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The meeting adjourned at 2:30 P.M.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                                         
LOG NOTES                                                                                                                       
January 27, 2000                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
H.F.C.      6     1/27/00                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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